"Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious" (shour)
06/16/2016 at 14:33 • Filed to: None
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"Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious" (shour)
06/16/2016 at 14:33 • Filed to: None | 0
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UPDATED: Lots of responses, and all confirming what I expected. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
Hey Oppopheliacs - your obnoxious neighborhood Shour checking in with a question or ten.
Friend of mine found a BMW 525i for sale, asked me to look it over. Trick is, she asked me the night before I was leaving town (posting from Plano, rather than Hell Paso today), so I didn’t have time to call the owner for a test drive. But, I figure I can share what I know from my once-over with all of you, and ask for your thoughts. (I’ve always considered the E39 M5 one of my dream cars, but I have never owned or maintained a Bimmer, so having the perspective of anyone who HAS owned and maintained E36/38/39 Bimmers will be helpful.)
2002 BMW 525i, slushbox, 154k miles, asking $5,300 on the window...cosmetically speaking, the car looks to be in fantastic shape. Paint, glass, wheels, and interior are still close to immaculate, with three small dings in hood spread far apart (golf ball impacts? They don’t sharp enough to be rock impacts), and new-looking tires (lots of tread). I probably should have taken photos for you guys to examine, but as I said, I didn’t even get to test-drive it. I did warn my friend that used Bimmers have a reputation for being inexpensive to acquire while being expensive to own and maintain.
Preview pic of an upcoming car I will review soon for your time:
Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:36 |
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The autos become VERY pricey when things go wrong.
Steve in Manhattan
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:41 |
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I’ll give the Car Talk advice I always give - take it to a BMW expert that you choose before you buy it. I think the asking price is heavy by about 2 grand, and if the car needs 4 or 5 grand to make it roadworthy, you need to know that going in. And it is, as near as makes no difference, 15 years old. And German, which usually means spotty reliability and a great deal of expense.
Party-vi
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:44 |
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Unless she’s got her own set of tools or deep pockets tell her to move on. At 150k miles it should be on it’s second water pump and almost ready for a third, 2nd set of spark plugs, a transmission flush (not cheap at all), new RTABSs and FCABs, more than likely shocks, coolant expansion tank, and probably thermostat. I like my E46 a lot, but the little piddly shit breaking and wearing out gets old.
Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:48 |
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Ive only had my e36 for a short time but its easy to work on and well made as far as I can tell. Obviously cant give much in the way of proper advice though until i get her on the road and gain some more experience with it.
Flyboy is FAA certified insane
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:54 |
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That’s a little steep for a car that’s a ticking time bomb. If she wants a BMW I’d look for an e46, e36 or an e34 in that price range with less miles.
My friend’s dad had an e34 that was the most reliable car he’s ever had until a Semi decided it wanted to become one with the rear end.
Noah - Now with more boost.
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:54 |
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BMW nerd here. I’m going to be more brutal than usual. My friends and I have been keeping an E36 328is on the road for over 250k miles. Maintaining nineties BMWs SUCKS unless you inherit someone else’s meticulous preventative maintenance. Most parts are way more expensive than you’d expect and some of them break all the time. That’s because back in the day, the German government mandated that auto manufacturers had to use “environmentally friendly” plastics, which weren’t up to snuff yet. They couldn’t choose from the best plastics available, they had to choose the best government approved options. Which were not very good, so they don’t age well. IMO this is pretty much the stupidest way to spend 5k on a car. Nineties BMWs are awesome. But they are also total pieces of garbage. And this isn’t even a fast piece of trash with a manual transmission.
Ash78, voting early and often
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 14:56 |
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I might spend that on a 530, but sounds a little too sporty a price for a 525. The only way I'd consider a 525 would be if it was a wagon (Touring), since they didn't make the E39 530 in a wagon, IIRC. I ditto the advice that most BMW shops will have a standard inspection that should cost no more than an hour to two. Totally worth it to avoid potentially thousands in hidden repairs. My own experience with a VW version aside, the ZF slushbox (5HP19) is reputed to be pretty bulletproof and has been in use in a lot of cars for a long time.
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Noah - Now with more boost.
> Party-vi
06/16/2016 at 14:57 |
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The glove box lid on my college friend’s E36 used to fall off every time he hit a big bump. It got to the point where I would just take it off and throw it into the back seat whenever I went for a ride in it.
finn's arm
> Steve in Manhattan
06/16/2016 at 14:59 |
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I agree completely that the asking is high by $2K unless it is absolutely perfect and everything mechanically is new. Smart money is financing a newer BMW w/ a warranty.
$2-3K slush fund set aside to purchase parts for DIY. If she is paying a mechanic, having another $5K on the side would be smart.
I own a good condition 2000 528iT in DFW area w/ 179K miles, bought at 153K for $3K all inclusive of taxes/registration ($2.5K and change for car). Spent about $2K in parts in the first year (preventative maint./consumables, cooling system overhaul, suspension components, various gaskets/hoses). Labor would have set me back $2-3K if performed by a mechanic.
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Ash78, voting early and often
> Noah - Now with more boost.
06/16/2016 at 14:59 |
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I had heard rumors of this (to help explain why my '98 and '01 Passat interiors and underhood plastics were great...for about 5 years).
RallyWrench
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 15:01 |
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Great cars, and I consider them the last good 5 series, but with that mileage it’s right on time to need some serious investment if it hasn’t already consumed a few grand. All the cooling system plastic, including heater pipes under the intake, expansion tank, radiator, thermostat cover, and hoses. If the valve cover (plastic warps=leak) and oil filter housing (brittle gasket=bad leak) haven’t been done yet, they’ll need to be, which is $1000. The transmissions can last, but often don’t get serviced and rarely last past about this mileage if not. The front suspension will need a going through if it hasn’t been done, and the rear control arm ball joints will likely be needed as well. The plastic belt rollers on the engine also fail commonly. Sensing a theme about crappy German plastic in bad places? Also, the 2.5 in the 5 series is the most likely to crack the head at some point in my experience, and if it’s ever been overheated or looked at sideways, the likelihood of that rises. Also bear in mind that an automatic 525 is glacially slow.
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RallyWrench
> Party-vi
06/16/2016 at 15:01 |
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Truth.
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Party-vi
> Noah - Now with more boost.
06/16/2016 at 15:03 |
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Ash78, voting early and often
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 15:06 |
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1. Was she specifically shopping for a 5-series? 2. Was she specifically looking for an E39 model? 3. Does she have quick/easy access to a BMW-specific shop? If that answer to ANY of those is no, I’d tell her to hesitate. I know way too many people who bought older luxury cars on "Wow, look at that price" while ignoring the realities of what they were getting into. And if those answers were no, then maybe a Lexus ES/GS...
RyanFrew
> Party-vi
06/16/2016 at 15:07 |
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“Do you hear it now?”
I have a noise coming from the back of my Mini so loud, it sounds like I’m towing a horse trailer. I’ve checked it out 3 times. Removed the whole rear bumper once. 1 time to BMW. 5 times to my mechanic. New struts, new sway bar, new bushings, new end links, replaced brake components.
No idea, to this day, what that sound is.
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Noah - Now with more boost.
> Party-vi
06/16/2016 at 15:15 |
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YES lol I love that video, thank you for reminding me of it
ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 15:39 |
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Last year, I owned an 2000 E39 528i, 5 speed auto w/factory sport package that I used for commuting from the Westside to Las Cruces. They are great cars to drive, but like with many big boy cars, the purchase price should be viewed as the down payment on the ownership experience. In terms of their attributes, everything Automobile magazine waxed poetic about them in the late 90's/early 2000's is still true. If your friend can work on it, and they don’t need to source parts locally, then the maintenance and repair costs are not as high as most folks think. However, the key to that is being capable of repairing it yourself, and being okay with sourcing parts via one the big German car parts wear houses (and surprisingly, via ebay) and them showing up via the UPS guy the next week.
If one needed to source parts locally, or needed parts yesterday, be prepared to bend over. Likewise, they are a complex car that not every shop is able and/or willing to work on well. Generally, the folks that do a good job of turning wrenches on these cars are going to charge you accordingly. However, if you know your way around an engine compartment and you can follow the VERY explicit directions in the very expansive BMW service manual, there is no reason you can’t keep one going your self. Ebay was also a surprisingly good place to find some of the more common specialty tools that required to work on an E39. If one is looking to learn how to wrench, or hasn’t worked as a wrench previously, then an E39 may not be the best choice to learn on. They are complex, and the price of mistakes may be steep. I found ebay to be a great place to find OEM E39 parts at surprisingly good prices. The usual two or three big German part cars warehouses are also good sources at prices that won’t make you ask them to use lube.
Some other things to keep in mind is that routine maintenance is not quite like keeping a japanese econobox running where you tend to need only to change the oil and service filters for long periods of time. That 5 quart bottle of mobil one 0W-40 at Walmart? You’ll need two of two of those to go along with the cartridge filter at each oil change. In El Paso, the charcoal-lined cabin air filters will need pretty regular replacement. There are also two of the those needed each time they are serviced. The cooling system and belt system are replaced (in their entirety) about every 60K on these cars. Knowing that the hose assemblies, radiator, (pressurized) overflow tank, water pump and (computer controlled) thermostat housing, fan clutch, serpentine belts and the hydraulic tensioner assemblies are reasonably fresh are critical to reliability on an E39. If you had to pay a shop, it would be expensive. If you’ve a Saturday morning, the cooling system components can be had for (IIRC) around $400. BMW says the diffs and auto trannies are “lubed for life”, but they never say how long that life is supposed to be. Since we all know better, there is a specific procedure to refill the auto tranny to right level, and I seems to recall that the fluid was a bit expensive and harder to find.
On an E39, and in addition to the cooling and belt systems, I’d give a real close look at the suspension bushings. These cars tend to eat them, and they are replaced by installing entire new control arms. While the control arms are not as individually expensive as one might expect, they do add up. Knowing how fresh that battery in the trunk is might be worthwhile, too. I recall them being on the more expensive side on car batteries. The seals in the VANOS assemblies are also something to be aware of. They are not quite what the BMW forums make them out to be, but it is either an expensive job to have done at a shop, or an extensive job done at home that will require purchasing a few hundred dollars of specialty tools. If they’ve been done, then great. If they have not been done, then it something that will need to be done at some point. If the car runs real differently when it is cold, then they are probably something that need to be done sooner.
An E39 is really a car to have an PPI done on by the German car shop of your choice. Buying a bad one, or even buying a good one but no knowing what maintenance and repairs are out on the foreseeable horizon, is going to be an expensive experience. Buying one and expecting it to be like maintaining a Honda is probably also going to lead to disappointment. If your friend can buy a good one, and can live with the price it costs to play, then they are a very, very good cars. If the first question they tend ask a mechanic is “how much will it cost?”, then owning an complex and aged German car is probably not a good idea.
Under_Score
> Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
06/16/2016 at 16:18 |
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The type of vehicle pictured isn’t a stranger to serious issues, either. One of my friends has one just like that, but blue; it’s had so many problems.
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Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious
> ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
06/16/2016 at 20:17 |
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Nice to see another Cruces/Paso Jalopponaut. ^_^